WHAT I LEARNED ON CUREZONE
When I was sick, I spent a lot of time on the Curezone forum. I obsessively read posts in both the Chronic Fatigue Forum and the Adrenal Fatigue Forum...and come to think of it I think I found Curezone when I was battling systemic candida, which I had off and on at various points in my life.
(more about that later!). But the folks on Curezone are still separating Adrenal Fatigue from Chronic Fatigue (they are under the same umbrella), and there is tons of confusing information that you can plunge into-and I just looked at it today, and found some of the same people that were on there 5 years ago! Anywho, the only time I felt moved to join in any conversations on curezone was when other commenters were posting the great results they were having with SSRI'S. So I joined the SSRI bandwagon-with some trepidation as some posters were saying the stimulating effects of SSRI's could
just make you worse. So my doctor prescribed Lexapro-I knew what to expect, as I had battled depression, too, and had taken prozac in my twenties. The most interesting thing that happened to me when I first started on Lexapro-which made me groggy but in a kind of non-CFS way-the difference between CFS fatigue and just plain fatigue is EASILY felt when you have CFS. So I felt a bit groggy and I started to sleep really, really well, BUT the weirdest thing is that my intuitive abilities suddenly increased-in those first few weeks of taking Lexapro I began having intuitive "hits" and having prophetic dreams...and now I know why-because SSRI'S are deeply sedating, even though they can have a "speeding up" effect-and when you are in a calm and relaxed state, your intuition works much better...there isn't as much "noise" blocking it out. So because I was calmer and sleeping better I thought I was "cured"so I began posting about how awesome Lexapro was and how it helped me...and it did...because I could sleep....but I crashed again...so it wasn't the magic bullet I thought it would be...
The other thing I learned on Curezone was that one of the people posting was writing a book on CFS-and particularly on the personality traits of those who get it. I was totally on board with that because I had noticed the same thing-there IS a personality "type" that is more prone to contract CFS...in short, it's those people who are driven type A's, who push themselves physically and mentally, but also those who are naturally sensitive, empathic, introverted, and creative; many, many people who have experienced childhood trauma also tend to develop CFS and CFS related disorders as well. And it all makes sense when you understand what I believe, from my experiences and treatment, is one of the causes of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
(more about that later!). But the folks on Curezone are still separating Adrenal Fatigue from Chronic Fatigue (they are under the same umbrella), and there is tons of confusing information that you can plunge into-and I just looked at it today, and found some of the same people that were on there 5 years ago! Anywho, the only time I felt moved to join in any conversations on curezone was when other commenters were posting the great results they were having with SSRI'S. So I joined the SSRI bandwagon-with some trepidation as some posters were saying the stimulating effects of SSRI's could
just make you worse. So my doctor prescribed Lexapro-I knew what to expect, as I had battled depression, too, and had taken prozac in my twenties. The most interesting thing that happened to me when I first started on Lexapro-which made me groggy but in a kind of non-CFS way-the difference between CFS fatigue and just plain fatigue is EASILY felt when you have CFS. So I felt a bit groggy and I started to sleep really, really well, BUT the weirdest thing is that my intuitive abilities suddenly increased-in those first few weeks of taking Lexapro I began having intuitive "hits" and having prophetic dreams...and now I know why-because SSRI'S are deeply sedating, even though they can have a "speeding up" effect-and when you are in a calm and relaxed state, your intuition works much better...there isn't as much "noise" blocking it out. So because I was calmer and sleeping better I thought I was "cured"so I began posting about how awesome Lexapro was and how it helped me...and it did...because I could sleep....but I crashed again...so it wasn't the magic bullet I thought it would be...
The other thing I learned on Curezone was that one of the people posting was writing a book on CFS-and particularly on the personality traits of those who get it. I was totally on board with that because I had noticed the same thing-there IS a personality "type" that is more prone to contract CFS...in short, it's those people who are driven type A's, who push themselves physically and mentally, but also those who are naturally sensitive, empathic, introverted, and creative; many, many people who have experienced childhood trauma also tend to develop CFS and CFS related disorders as well. And it all makes sense when you understand what I believe, from my experiences and treatment, is one of the causes of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
I am curious how you were able to break the Internet cure search and obsession? i am very similar to you...type a, proactive etc... But I can't kick searching at the expense of living the best I can with what I have.... Michael
ReplyDeleteCrud....I have been commenting/question here and there on this blog since I started reading it on sat. I am just now realizing that none of what I wrote got posted as I didn't apparently complete the steps. Argh....frustrating. Needless to say, I have found this blog very very helpful...we are exceedingly similar in our approaches and experiences. When it's not so late I may see if I can repost some of my thoughts and questions. Plato once said that the man who manages to escape the illusions of the cave and find the real source/light is morally obligated to return to show the others the way out. Thanks for returning to the cave when it may otherwise be tempting to close that chapter of your life and never look back. I resonate more with your analysis and perspective about CFS more than most (and I've read A LOT!).
ReplyDeleteHi Michael,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you found the blog and thank you for your comments. One reason I write is that I do feel a moral obligation here...I recovered when so many spend years being sick, and I wish to spread the word that recovery is possible, especially in a world where there is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about this confusing and debilitating illness. I only wish more people knew about this! I am frustrated by the misinformation I find, and by companies that continually push diet and supplements as a treatment. No amount of supplements and no diet will cure you, because they don't address the cause. As for obsessively searching on sites like curezone...well...it's part of the illness...your mind is caught in the same feedback loop that your body is. The first thing that I learned when I started the treatment that cured my illness was to STOP searching....it keeps you stuck in "sick mode"...and it keeps you questioning if your treatment is "for real"...I am always happy to answer questions..thanks for your comments!
Thank you for you willingness to answer questions. Yes...feedback loop...very hard to break. I sense my mind may process and analyze in a similar fashion as yours. I am encourage to hear that you have over come this. I sense that when I begin to feel comfortable with a good hypothesis and some real results with a healing modality, that it may be easier to let go of the hyper vigilance around symptoms. I have a sense that the ANS/limbic system is at the center of my CFS, but I have not had much luck with a Amygdala retraining...same with the ANS Rewire program by Dan neuffer. I think Dans explanation of the cycles and sub-cycles that perpetuate the symptoms is as good as I've heard, but his emphasis (up to where I have gotten in program so far) is mostly about a neuron firing loop and hyper vigilant focus on symptoms (much like PTSD) and less on subconscious emotional stuff. I like sarno's work, but I could not not relate with his heavily Freudian concept of the dark and brooding subconscious. I believe there is a "higher" unconscious as well that is just as capable of disorganizing the limbic system....the tensio that results between who we are and who we feel could or ought to be. I read both mickel's and eaton's books roughly 8 years ago, but the poor grammar/writing, excessive repetition, and glib explanations for the mechanism involved turned me off. I can see that they have much improved their websites and presentations of their work since them. I left a very ego-driven toxic career at 35 to pursue work much more in line with my core values. I did all I could to align with my highest authentic self and moved across country to attend grad school that felt like the most inspired and correct decision I have ever made. I had hoped this would begin a process of healing. Nope...and then had to put school on hold due to the CFS. I feel like my authentic self did the needful but my brain and nervous system haven't quite kept up their end of the bargain. :-). This made me question the reverse therapy hypothesis, but I also know there is more to it than merely making external changes if we aren't developing new neural networks.
ReplyDeleteI have an appt with the gent I think you worked with tomorrow AM over Skype (if you worked with same person Sarrah Cruz did...Kyle).
One question, do you actually feel or sense that you had adrenal fatigue at all, or were the symptoms merely limbic/brain/emotion-driven and we mistakenly presume it is a weak gland? If you feel there is a legit adrenal weakness (addisons-light) how long do you sense it took to recover when you got the emotional component figured out?
Also, I still have a once a day caffeine addiction in morning (used to be twice). Do you sense if you didn't quit, this might have sabataged your healing?
Also...if you worked with Kyle, did you do his membership program or just the one on one sessions.
Sorry to blast you with questions...
Michael
Hi Michael, I can tell that you are very analytical by reading your comments! You seem to have a good grasp of the complicated physiology involved here...Yes, I tried the Amygdala Retraining..that is really NLP...and it didn't work well for me...I have heard of the Dan Neuffer program as well...but it sounds as though is explanation is just too complex..this is a simple disease that we complicate too much! I think Dr. Sarno is good in his theories, but Freudian analysis and psychotherapeutic approach are not helpful. In order for anything to change and heal you need to make deep, internal changes, and your work with Kyle will help you to understand exactly what those are. Your body, not your analytical mind, will show you the way. If you learn to follow the messages your body is sending to you in the form of symptoms, then you will learn what changes you need to make, on an internal level. The wisdom is in your body, not your mind. I did have very very severe adrenal fatigue, which did reveal itself in blood tests, and of course, addisonian-like symptoms...very, very debilitating, my body was producing almost no cortisol...once I learned to listen to my symptoms and respond appropriately, my body was able to come back into balance and my cortisol levels returned to normal...my doctor continues to measure my cortisol levels even to this day...but it's a beautiful testament as to how this treatment will heal your body...this is not an emotional problem...you are very physically ill. I always recommend Kyle, because he has the knowledge and experience, and worked very , very hard to get me where I wanted to be in terms of my health...most doctors and therapists would not work as hard as he did to get me back to health. That said, this is a process of healing... you have to work at it! It is work...but I started working with him in July of 2011 and I was back to running, at his suggestion, in November of 2011. When I worked with him I paid him per session, I don't think he had a membership program at that time. Again, feel free to ask more quesitons.
DeleteOne more thing... I don't think that one cup of coffe will harm your recovery... Once you start working with Kyle and use his techniques your body will be able to adjust to caffeine... I now drink two cups a day...
ReplyDeleteThanks so much again for your response and answering my questions. I have many but I am only concerning myself with the essential ones right now and will let others be answered as I proceed with my work with Kyle. Couple things Id love to know about your healing experience:
ReplyDelete-what were the indications you were healing?
-was there any significant healing crises? Many people talk about healing taking them back through older symptoms and often feeling worse before getting better. Did you experience that with the emotion focused work?
I have often read and been told that when you shut off the source of the stress (whatever it is), exhaustion can ensue as part of the healing.
I do think Dan's explanation is not necessarily overly complicated as much as he breaks out the differences between primary imbalances (ANS/limbic dysregulation), secondary (adrenal/thyroid) and tertiary(methylation etc)...i.e. The primary ANS imbalance being caused by 4 sources of stress 1) illness caused stress and hypervigiliance toward body and symptoms, 2) subconscious emotional stress, 3) ongoing lifestyle stress, 4) physical stress, i.e. Toxins, infections etc. I like this model and think it's pretty comprehensive. If you take care of the primary limbic issue the rest heals.
Got first actual appt with Kyle tomorrow. Looking forward to working his program.
Cheers
Michael
Hi Michael,
ReplyDeleteThanks for clarifying Dan's program...I will research it more! Ok I knew I was recovering when I started to FEEL...now, I didn't know that I wasn't feeling things until I started to feel again...if that makes any sense...but it's almost like "waking up"...my feelings came back to me..I also started to have dreams of being on a large ship that had run aground in shallow waters...in a series of dreams the ship started to shift and move again...finally ending in the ship sailing on smooth waters...that is how deep the healing really was..another indicator that I was healing was that as I physically started to feel better...I could literally feel my body healing and my energy coming back to me..I felt emotionally WORSE...I started to have very strong feelings of grief and depression...I had to stay with those feelings, and allow those feelings to flow through me...otherwise my energy would recede and I would feel fatigued again. I have experienced several cleanses in the past where I had a physical "healing crisis", I think its called the Herxheimer reaction...but I didn't have that with this...I only felt my body healing...literally, but had to withstand some tough emotions in order to heal...make sense?
Hi, I hoping to read more about your experience with Lexipro. It seems like you credit it with helping to jumpstart your recovery. How long did you take it for?
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy your blog :)
Matt